Transcript of Christiane Amanpour’s Interview With Dr. Abdullah Abdullah on Runoff
In absence of the video of this interview, I located the transcript from last night’s interview between CNN’s Christiane Amanpour and Dr. Abdullah Abdullah.
Perhaps I am looking too much into it, but notice how much Dr. Abdullah referred to ‘change’ in his statements about his vision for Afghanistan. I don’t think it is necessarily plotted or disingenuous, but it is interesting that English language commercials for Dr. Ashraf Ghani also featured rhetoric of ‘Hope’ and ‘Change’ in them.
Amanpour and Dr. Abdullah also spoke about the possibility of a power sharing agreement, which Christiane Amanpour referred to in her Twitter updates after last night’s interview:
Good evening, everyone. I’m Christiane Amanpour, and welcome to our program.
A U.N.-backed electoral commission in Afghanistan today confirmed what many have suspected, that there was significant fraud in the presidential election. And it invalidated ballots in more than 200 polling stations. It’s unclear how many votes are affected.
But the numbers force President Hamid Karzai into a run-off with his main challenger, Dr. Abdullah Abdullah. That is according to an independent analysis of the election data.
And in another major development, the Obama administration today announced a major shift in policy towards Sudan, saying that it will now engage instead of isolating the government, as candidate Obama had pledged to do before he was president. Sudan’s president has been indicted on war crimes charges and crimes against humanity because of the offensive in Darfur.
In a moment, the Obama administration’s point man on Sudan, General Scott Gration, will join us. But first, we go to Kabul for an exclusive interview with the presidential candidate and challenger, Dr. Abdullah Abdullah.
Welcome to the program.
ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, AFGHAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You’re welcome. Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Dr. Abdullah, there have been a lot of special envoys coming to Afghanistan over the weekend. There’s been Senator Kerry. There have been all sorts of foreign ministers and others, phone calls going between you and President Karzai. What are they urging you to do?
ABDULLAH: I think, in the past few days, there have been a few problems between the elections campaigns commission and the Independent Elections Commission. And because of that, there was some controversy over the announcement.
And I think mainly, mainly the international representatives and dignitaries who have been in contact with us, they have been pressing on both sides to respect the outcome of the process and to respect whatever the EEC‘s judgment and final judgment on the outcome would be.
And finally, we had the EEC’s announcement a few hours ago. And we are waiting for the IEC, Independent Election Commission’s, commission to make the official announcement, hopefully tomorrow. So one chapter is behind us, hopefully, and then looking forward to the — to the future.
AMANPOUR: What would you expect the IEC to say? And why have they not come out with their official result today?
ABDULLAH: They — they say — their explanation was that the report from elections campaigns commission reached to them after the official time. And then they will have a look at it and then certify it and making their announcement afterwards. That has been their explanation.
AMANPOUR: We’re just going to put up a poll number that shows from an independent association, Democracy Now, what they’re saying. Apparently, according to the U.N.-backed independent analysis of what’s going on, some 68 percent — or, rather, 48 percent of the vote goes to Dr. Hamid Karzai and 32 percent to yourself, which could force a run-off, according to the constitution, will force a run-off. Do you believe there will be a run- off?
ABDULLAH: Yes, that’s our analysis, as well. The observers would observe the auditing the count process and also, later on, analyze the figures released by the EEC a few hours ago. That’s approximately what we have reached, too, as a conclusion.
So it will certainly go to a run-off. I am prepared for going to a run-off. And in fact, we have — since this was our anticipation, more or less, even before, so I had done some homework on preparations to go for a run-off.
But at the same time, there are some practical questions ahead of us. That’s the issue of the winter, security situation, and other realities on the ground. So while I’m prepared to go for a run-off, at the same time, the door is open to see, if a run-off were not possible due to those circumstances before the winter, so to find a solution for it.
AMANPOUR: And what is the solution? Is the solution a power-sharing government? Is it a coalition unity government?
ABDULLAH: I think before getting to specifics of it, I need to get a mandate from my supporters, from the people who have supported me, to — to open the door for talks which will be open for different scenarios. But at the same time, what I‘m sure and certain about, that‘s my pursuit of the program of change.
My thrust right from the beginning, my effort has not been to just get one or two posts in the cabinet and — and be part of a government, but it has rather been an effort to bring changes in this country, so to reverse this deteriorating course, deterioration in governance, security, corruption, politics, and so on and so forth.
So I‘ll be pursuing the program of change, if there was any scope to – - to work it out with the incumbent in that way, so I can achieve that — that goals of change and hopefully being able to — to influence the situation in positive way, so I leave the door open for such a scenario. But at the same time, since I haven’t engaged in these talks or I haven’t associated myself with any contacts with Mr. Karzai in the past few months, so it’s just too early to talk about the specifics of it. But the door will be open for finding a solution for this country. That’s all that I can say at this stage.
AMANPOUR: OK. I just want to confirm: Neither you nor your people have been in negotiations or any kind of talks about power-sharing or the future with President Karzai or his advisers?
ABDULLAH: Mr. Karzai a few weeks ago had made some approaches to our people, and later on those contacts were cut off. So at this stage, in the past few days, there hasn’t been any contact or approaches between my camp and Mr. Karzai’s people.
So post (ph) the official announcement, while I’m fully prepared to go for a run-off, and because there is a constitutional call for it. But at the same time, if it was not possible because of circumstances, I’m open to discuss it.
AMANPOUR: OK, let me ask you this. As you know, of course, there is a very fierce debate going on in the United States and around NATO, frankly, about whether it’s worth fighting, dying, sacrificing if there isn’t even a legitimate government in power in Afghanistan. My question to you is, given the numbers — and even if Mr. Karzai is below 50 percent — do you think that you would be prepared to compromise in — in — in order to allow the U.S. and NATO continue to their presence and to try to finish the job, which presumably you want them to do?
ABDULLAH: Yes. I’m aware of the debates in Washington and around the world. And, unfortunately, today there are serious questions in different parts of the world about the continuation of the engagement, perhaps if not about the — the whole issue of engagement, but about how to deal with that and — and what should be the approaches and what should be the short-term and long-term strategies and policies.
I try in my own part to — to help and support such an idea, so the peoples — the people who are supporting Afghanistan, the countries who are supporting Afghanistan, are becoming more hopeful for the future of this country. And I will contribute towards that end. And that’s my goal. And — and that was my aim when I became a candidate, because I knew, without a credible partner, without a reliable partner here in Afghanistan, strategies — no wonder how good they are — are — could fail.
So if I’m able to do in contributing this sort of environment, I will do such. And otherwise, of course, I — I’ll play that role from another corner.
AMANPOUR: OK. Dr. Abdullah, I also want to ask you another question. We’re going to put some pictures up. There are many people who say Afghanistan is no longer governable. We’re now showing some black-and- white pictures from the years when King Zahir Shah was in office. It was so-called the golden age.
I also want to play a little bit of an interview I had with the king before he returned to Afghanistan, after you all defeated the Taliban back in 2001, 2001. Listen for a second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: When I was in Kabul, everybody remembered your time and your rule as the golden age. Even the young people said, “We want the king to come back, because for 40 years, we had peace. He brought a constitution. Women had rights. Women could vote.” But today, Afghanistan is torn by warlordism, by tribal differences. How is it going to be possible to govern Afghanistan today?
MOHAMMED ZAHIR SHAH, FORMER KING OF AFGHANISTAN (through translator): I myself, I’m a democrat. I was brought up in a democratic society. And it was natural for me to pursue and follow that path, to bring democracy to Afghanistan, and to respect the free will of the Afghan people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Dr. Abdullah, do you think Afghanistan can have a golden age, can be governable today?
ABDULLAH: Certainly. I do think and I do hope that I’ll be able to contribute towards that end. And nevertheless, that post-2001, there was a golden opportunity. Unfortunately, we have missed most part of it. And that’s not there anymore.
But what we can do is with the remaining of what is left from the opportunity, which is the hopes of the people of Afghanistan and the goodwill from our friends around the world, and with partnering between Afghanistan and the international community, we can achieve those goals, but through a democratic process.
And these recent announcements, like a few hours ago, about the possibility of a run-off will strengthen the fate of the people on the democratic process. And hopefully, we will be able to work it out in the remaining — in the coming days and bring new hopes to the people of Afghanistan.
It depends whether we can make the people of Afghanistan participants in the political process, in their governance, in the issues of governance, and the politics, security, developmental process. That’s the key. And I think it‘s doable. And — but I — I know that we have missed a lot of opportunities already.
AMANPOUR: Dr. Abdullah, thank you very much, indeed.
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